Curse

Ultimus · Aug 23, 2007, 05:25 AM // 05:25

So I am a moderately involved GW player, meaning I have taken a R/E up to 20 in Prophecies, snagged several elites, and almost completed the missions. Having played a ranged character already (and temporarily bored of it), I wanted to give some melee action a try, but don't really want to play a warrior. I had this image of a sword-wielding paragon with support shouts, chants, etc. who would be in the middle of the melee action. Is a swordsmanship over spear mastery track illogical for the paragon's party role? I have browsed through these forums and seen praise for the paragon's survivability due to its range from the enemy.

LightningHell · Aug 23, 2007, 06:11 AM // 06:11

It's pretty illogical, yes, considering that spears have pretty much warrior DPS. But hey, it's PvE, whatever rocks your boat.

Utaku · Aug 23, 2007, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Spears allow you to stand where your chants and shouts can affect your whole team: in the middle line. You can play around with swords and axes, but nothing can beat the spear on a Paragon primary imo.

Toutatis · Aug 23, 2007, 11:00 AM // 11:00

You could take swordsmanship over spear mastery, if you wanted to. The downside of this would be that if you're on the front line, your shout/chant range might not cover the casters in the back row. The spear helps more with vocal buffs as you can position yourself in the middle of the party to cover all of your allies at once. You could still do this with a sword, but it might mean stepping away from the melee once in a while if you need to make sure that the whole party gets covered by a shout/chant.

Also, spears have the highest DPS of all of the 1-handed weapons once you do the math behind it. Add in spear mastery runes for the paragon primary, and the spear easily beats the sword on a P/W.

One thing that a P/W does very well though is keep echoes running pretty much permanently. Echoes like Mending Refrain and Aggressive Refrain reapply themselves whenever a shout or chant ends on the affected ally, and with a short-lived and fast charging shout like "Watch Yourself!" from the Warrior's tactics line, you can keep these useful echoes running for as long as you can keep building adrenaline.

Ultimus · Aug 23, 2007, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Thanks for the help guys. I totally overlooked the shout range factor...now spears make a lot more sense to me. I'm not sure what I'll do yet but I think I will still make a Paragon and he will use spears.

Div · Aug 23, 2007, 07:11 PM // 19:11

I don't see as big of a problem with shouts/chants, because everyone should be in your aggro bubble in PvE anyways (besides the few rampaging wammos and over-conservative monks). The biggest thing is that you won't be able to use a sword nearly as effectively as a warrior.

MBP · Aug 24, 2007, 01:10 AM // 01:10

well It could be effective...Para's have the same AL as warriors but they'd be limited to only 12 swordsmanship..and I honestly wouldn't know where to start in terms of making a build.

samcobra · Aug 24, 2007, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Yes, its dumb.

coycub · Aug 26, 2007, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcobra

Yes, its dumb.

[Anthem of Flame]
OMG you are amazing?!?
[/Anthem of Flame]

[M]agna_[C]arta · Aug 27, 2007, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Warlord, [P/W]:
Swordsmanship ?
Leadership ?
Command ?

Galrath Stike
Final Thrust
Hundred Blades
"Find their Weakness!"
"Go for the Eyes!"
[joint v]Anthem of Envy/Crippling Anthem/Anthem of Distruption[/Joint v]
[joint ^]Anthem of Flame/Anthem of Guidance/Anthem of Weariness[/Joint ^]
Leader's Comfort/"They're on Fire!"/"Never Surrender/Give Up!"
Signet of Return/Resurrection Signet(Optional)

Berserker, [P/W]:
"Their is a Dagger-Type too"
Swordsmanship/Axe/Hammer Mastery 12
Leadership 12

Galrath Strike/Executioner's Strike/Mighty Blow
Barbarous Slice/Penetrating Chop/Dismember/Hammer Bash
Gash/Hundred Blades/Cyclone Axe/Axe Twist/Rake/Yeti Smash/Whirling Attack/Pulverizing Smash
Aggressive Refrain
Natural Temper
Focused Anger
Leader's Comfort
Signet if Return/Resurretion Signet(Optional)

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________

The Builds above are used for Offense sorry, if you want Supportive, stick to you'r Staff or Spear/Wand and Shield/Focus^^.
Like what those guys said if you want to be Support stick being in the Middle Line not Front. The Casters need more help than the Frontliners.
If their is a Build if all of you are Melee then that'l be great^^.

All Melee Build!

3 Soulwind Assassin, A/Mo
"I recomend adding Runes
Critical Mastery ?[More]
Dagger Mastery ?[Less]
Healing Prayers 9

Golden Pheonix Strike
Death Blossom/Critical Strike
Moebius Strike
Critical Eye
Vigorous Spirit/Mending Touch
Critical Defences
Live Vicariously
Resurrection Signet(Optional)

2 Warlord, P/W
"^Check Above^"

3 Healing Dervishes, D/V or D/Mo
"You may Add Monk skills like Light of Deliverance, Heal Party, Healing Burst/Seed bu the Pure Derv is better"
"This Derv uses Swords and Focus Items, And go stay in the Frontline dish out some AoE Holy Damage while healing you're Allies!"
Mysticism 12
Wind Prayers 12

Dwayna's Touch/Imbue Health/Healing Burst
Balthazar's Rage
Zealous Renewal
Heart of the Holy Flame
Eternal Aura/Vow of Piety/Heal Party
Pious Restoration/Healing Seed
Mystic Healing/Light of Deliverance
Resurrection Signet(Optional)

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________

Hope you like the Builds^^!
BTW, all of this aren't Tested yet^^!
I just thought of it while posting this message!

Khomet Si Netjer · Aug 30, 2007, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Paragons can do something that warriors can't... they can keep everyone around them burning almost constantly. Add this to your insane adrenaline gain and watch the fun. One can argue that the armor-ignoring degen from constant burning outweighs the extra damage you might get from a warrior primary with Strength and higher weapon attribute.

I've been experimenting with this build lately in PvE, it seems pretty great... try it and see if you have any improvements on it. Since you are inflicting burning everywhere you can make use of They're On Fire for more damage reduction and/or Glowing Signet for more energy management. Also consider Bladeturn Refrain in melee-heavy areas, it will give you permanent +30AL vs. slashing damage, bringing you to 136AL. TNTF is generally plenty of defense though. I am using Victo's Blade (vampiric) so the damage and healing from it is pretty good with the multi-target attack skills. I have a zealous falchion equipped in another weapon set but I have not needed it yet. Its energy gain would also be stronger with the multi-target attack skills.

P/W Burning Blade (command)
Swordsmanship 12
Command 10 (9+1)
Leadership 12 (9+2+1)

Sun and Moon Slash / Pure Strike / Jaizhenju Strike
Hundred Blades (elite)
Whirlwind Attack
"Go for the Eyes!"
Save Yourselves!" / Anthem of Envy
"There's Nothing To Fear!"
Blazing Finale
"For Great Justice" / Signet of Return

P/W Burning Blade (tactics)
Swordsmanship 12
Tactics 9
Leadership 12 (9+2+1)

Soldier's Strike / Sun and Moon Slash
Hundred Blades (elite)
Whirlwind Attack
"Watch Yourself!"
Save Yourselves!"
"There's Nothing To Fear!"
Blazing Finale
"For Great Justice" / Signet of Return

The usage is simple, when you enter battle use Blazing Finale, For Great Justice and TNTF immediately for adrenaline gain, protection, and healing. Spam Hundred Blades and Whirlwind Attack for damage and huge adrenaline gain. Use the adrenaline shouts to regain energy and inflict burning on everything around you. They will charge very quickly so you can keep surrounding foes burning almost constantly... when added to the sword damage and crits the enemies go down very quickly. You can also put Blazing Finale on other melee characters in your group to spread the burning. :-)

standard anti-melee counters apply to both of these... blind, cripple, weakness, etc. though you are not as vulnerable to Blind and Weakness because you can still inflict damage through burning. Anti-shout skills are only partially effective because you can still attack and do damage though the burning and defense will be shut down.

iridescentfyre · Sep 11, 2007, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBP

well It could be effective...Para's have the same AL as warriors but they'd be limited to only 12 swordsmanship..and I honestly wouldn't know where to start in terms of making a build.

Most people seem to forget a Warrior actually has 100 AL vs. Physical (which is the vast majority of damage), 80 AL is for elemental damage, only.

Well, swords are faster, thus = faster adrenaline gain. Paragons are hardly lacking in armor, and anyone who really NEEDS your shouts/chants will be close enough to you anyway... e.g. an "over-conservative monk" that far from the action doesn't need your help. If you want to give it a try, go for it.

Prof Of Black · Sep 11, 2007, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Spear is ftw, as already explained.

Paragons in melee range: only good with the ToF tank build (axe).

~Prof.

Darkpower Alchemist · Sep 11, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

The beauty of [skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill] is what really makes the paragon with a sword possible. This has to be the best IAS in the game, and it isn't even a stance.

Yet, with a gwen skill like [wiki]Holy Spear[/wiki] and [wiki]Burning Shield[/wiki], it can go either way. Get up in the mix and fight like a warrior/derv/assassin or stand back and level the MM's minions and maybe the MM if he sticks his nose in your business.

Good times for a Paragon. The choices, the choices.

zling · Sep 19, 2007, 02:02 AM // 02:02

as prof of black mentioned above me, your best bet as a melee paragorn is the ToF axe build with Triple Chop, Whirling Attack, Cyclone Axe(optional), ToF, aggresive refain, Blazing Finale and stuff
but if u still want to use a sword paragorn your best bet is to use a dragon slasher to build up massive adrenaline for your shouts and chants
Dragon Slash->Sun and Moon Slash->Aggressive Refain->shouts, chants and echoes of choice, Signet of Return
remember to keep balance between energy and adrenaline shouts, chants and echoes.
you dont want too many adrenal shouts due to it slowing Dragon Slash and Sun and Moon Slash but you also dont want only energy shouts, chants and echoes as those are infact your only energy management, which is very powerful but needs some adrenal stuff to pump energy

Bouldershoulder · Sep 19, 2007, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Spears are used so that you are in the middle of the fighting, surrounding all party members so that everyone is affected by your shouts and chants.

Since you're in PvE, whatever you feel like using, go right ahead, I'm just stating my opinion (true though, right?)

Cowboy Nastyman · Sep 19, 2007, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Personally I believe if you want to play melee para axe is the better weapon choice. dismember agonizing is a beautiful little combo, combine with blazing finale go for the eyes and they're on fire and you have a strong melee fighter. I know, I used my para setup as axe to get me legendary vanquisher, it is very viable.

Trx · Sep 19, 2007, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bouldershoulder

Spears are used so that you are in the middle of the fighting, surrounding all party members so that everyone is affected by your shouts and chants.

True, though if you run full hero/hench even the 'backline' should always be in your shout bubble since everybody is somewhat attacking the same mob and unless you bring rangers their attack range = your shout bubble.

And like others said ToF tank is pretty effective. If only they wouldn't swing their axe/sword so retarded

.

Darkpower Alchemist · Sep 20, 2007, 08:57 AM // 08:57

The ToF build is an option, not the only option, though the spear gives greater flexibility than the sword due to range and the greater DW possibility. Yet, to play either Sword/Axe/Hammer are all possible, though the spear is to the paragon's obvious strengths.

distilledwill · Sep 20, 2007, 09:57 AM // 09:57

ToF tank has become all the more viable in PvE since the addition of TNTF, i also like Burning Shield. Go for the eyes! is a fast charging, practically instantly active due to it triggering on the next attack - usually used to maintain refrains etc.

[card]Hundred Blades[/card]Whirlwind Attack[card]Blazing Finale[/card]"There's Nothing To Fear!"[card]"They're On Fire!"[/card][card]"Go For The Eyes!"[/card]Burning Shield[card]Aggressive Refrain[/card]